Bidding

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Bidding

Postby tysok » Thu Feb 02, 2006 9:57 pm

In the bidding process, can you bid more than the money you have?

For instance, I bid 3k on each of 20 orcs. Total high dollar bid would be 60k. Is that possible? I know you wouldn't be able to spend more than you had, so you might possibly end up with 10 orcs you paid all your money to and have none left for any others.
Or do you have to have high bid total under whatever you have, opening the season would be 25k. So you could only bid just over 1k each for each of 20 orcs? Or 20k on 1 orc and 250 on the other 19? etc

If you can bid higher than the dollar you have, how is that handled. Does it bid for the first orc on your list first and then travel down... or is there some hidden listing of what orc comes up to bid on first.
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Postby TheIceMage » Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:19 pm

You could, theoretically, bid your whole treasury on 20 different orcs. There are a few things that could happen:

1) An opponent does the same thing, and you each end up with a 25,000 gold rookie

2) You out-bid your opponents and end up with the orc

3) You run out of gold and can't quite cover your bid, but you still have enough to cover the minimum requested bid, so your bid is adjusted

4) You run out of gold and can't cover the minimum, so your bid is deleted

There is no limitation in place for you overbidding your treasury, but when the auction runs, your "auction agent" (he's the one with the abacus) knows when he's broke.

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Postby Dizzy » Fri Feb 13, 2009 8:46 pm

What was the logic in your decision to allow the winning bid on an orc to be decreased until it is 1 gold more than the second-highest bid? i.e. Why should an Overlord not be forced to pay what he bid?

Consider high-falutin' moneybags Team X in Div III. Team X sees that five orcs in the Homelands are worth "all that and a bag of chips" (as compared to the other orcs therein). Any amount of money paid will be earned back in victories and loot. Said paid money will no doubt be a reasonable sum because (a) every other team has around half Team X's amount in gold or less, and (b) the other Overlords are either programmed computers or generally fiscally sensible 'umies. Team X bids 60000 gold on each orc (though he does not, in fact, have 300000 gold) and buys each of them for less than a third of that amount due to bid adjustment.

What if it weren't so easy? Additionally, what does the orc see? He sees a team bid 60000 and his eyes light up: he'll have all the Squig Ale that he can drink for life after one season! Then, the bottom drops out: one bid adjustment later, and he gets 14000. Since he is bad at math, all he knows is that he will have to play for more than one season to purchase the aforementioned beverages, and that makes him sullen and moody and liable to pee in his teammates' lockers.

So, back to the original question: was there an underlying reason for this mechanic in the system?

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Postby tuneloon » Sat Feb 14, 2009 10:01 am

I think I can answer this question, although I'm not sure I'm right. So I'll take a stab at it anyways.

If we were bidding in real time, the bidding process would go back and forth.... I bid 1K, you bid 1.5, I bid 2... until there is only one remaining bidder (say at 5K). Even though I might spend 15K on this particular orc, I'm not going to continue to bid against myself when nobody else is interested in him, so my offer stands at 5K, which is what I pay, instead of 15K.
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Postby Dizzy » Sat Feb 14, 2009 8:47 pm

OK! If that is the system that the program is trying to represent, then I understand. I guess that I just assumed automatically that the auction represented a blind bidding system, since the hidden bids from other teams can't affect my judgment of an orc's inherent value, unlike in an open round.

Blind bidding mechanics work well to provide tension in a draft and to encourage the wealthier teams to think a bit instead of just forcing the pot every time.

Meh. It's something to consider on those cold nights when you can't sleep, and that shadow on the wall looks like it's moving, and there's a spider descending slowly from the ceiling towards your eyeball. I know that I always think of auctions when that happens.
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Postby bubbauk » Sun Feb 15, 2009 1:07 pm

you thinking like a contract bidder. not like an auction bidder. i'd like to see that when u place a bid, that you see if others have bid on that orc. dont really have to have the amount that they bid on them, cause that could give an unfair advantage to bidding late, but just if others have placed a bid on a orc to see if i should bid higher than normal, or if i can get by with a minimum bid.
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Postby Dizzy » Sun Feb 15, 2009 4:14 pm

See, that's exactly my point: you don't need to know how many bids are on that orc. Just bid as much as you are willing to pay, and if you have the only bid, then you'll pay only the minimum amount. No disadvantage, no gamble required.

Consider the following:
What if you find a real diamond in the rough? Someone who looks like he could pack more wallop or score more often than his list price would suggest. Should you just bid the minimum, hoping that no one else saw him? Should you bid 10X his listed price, just in case? But what if no one else bid on him? You just blew 9X, you dingbat! See? Tension!

Not that I'm insisting that the auction system be changed.. no, no. Far from it. I just wanted to know what sparked the idea behind adjusting the winning bids. 's'all.
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Postby TheIceMage » Mon Feb 16, 2009 1:07 am

I'm still waiting for the day when two overlords bid 25,000 on the same orc. One overlord poor, one orc's value messed up for a long time....

So the system is supposed to emulate an auction, where person A bids X, person bids X+1, etc., until someone gets the orc. Since I can't do a live auction - nobody would log in at the right time for that - I called it a "bidding agent" - someone that goes in your place, knows how much he/she is authorized to spend on an orc and bids that much. They also know how much is in your treasury. Since the order of bids is determined by Things Outside Your Control, there is some small amount of tension.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. For now.
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Postby ettiene » Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:44 am

No complaints here :wink:
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